From: "crossman" <crossman@goplay.com>

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:02:00 -0800

Subject: eskrima: Fwd: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #336

 Just throwing chum in the water to stir up the sharks...

 ***

(Not to say that there wasn't E&D before or that there may be E&D without Spanish influence!)

 Remember that the Muslims were in Spain for a long period of time, wherein the arts and sciences were exchanged between the Muslims

(Moors) and the Spanish. Within the "arts" was the combat arts, which included the combined use of short and long weapons that

eventually became termed as Espada y Daga. Moreover, the use of long and short probably migrated from Morocco. Also recall that The

Muslim influence stretched across the Asian continent and up through the Philippines as far north as Luzon. So, it may be logical to

conclude that the Pilipinos before the Spaniards had the knowledge of the use of short and long weapons, and when the Spaniards

invaded, they also knew Espada y Daga from the time of the Moors. So, it seems that regardless of what opinion you have on

Espada y Daga, both cultures--indigenous Pilipino and Spanish--had the knowledge. ***

The Spaniards are "forevermore" in the blood of the Filipinos. So are the Americans and the Chinese... Not to mention the Filipinos with

"Japanese" hearts.  It's becoming more evident that this is true, no matter how much Pilipinos try to deny the fact. Most of the Pilipino

names today have that Spanish flavor, and most of us have Spanish blood. But knowing this, accepting it, and moving on is all we can

do. African, Indian, Malaysian, Indonesian, Chinese, Japanese, Pilipino...it's all the same.

 Peace,

Bob Manalo, Jr.

<<The blend is "unique" in certain respects, but common to former Spanish colonies in many others. >>

 Except this Spanish colony did not extend throughout the whole area we call the Philippines today. Easiest way to gauge how far the

colonial rule went is by the spread of Catholicism. The Spaniards did not take too kindly to worshipping differently from they (talk about

understatement). So for there to be a predominantly Muslim religion in the southern areas and "aboriginal" tribes elsewhere, when you

speak of Spanish colonies you end up dismissing a huge section of that country. I saw a film called "Buntoc Eulogy" a few years

back and from the archival footage of the Igorots... I didn't see much Spanish influence in face or culture. The subject of the film was how

young Filipinos dealt with their ancestral roots- their love/hate relationship with their past. The film maker used his grandfather 's

experience at the early 1900' World's Fair as part of an exhibit of indigenous tribes, as the backbone for the story. Highly recommended.

- --Rafael ---

From: Lonnie Pollard <lonpolla@mdcc.edu>

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:23:46 -0400

Subject: eskrima: History Update

 Since posting a couple months back requesting any information from anyone who might know of information about the origins of the art

"Doce Pares" of Laguna, and of its Espada Y Daga origins, I was pleasantly stunned by the private responses. I received some very nice

letters from across the globe. Last night I received an interesting e-mail message that contained a few things I'm permitted to share here,

and I will do so to the best of my ability. I will return to replying to the "Origins" posts later today, if time permits.

 First, the letter makes mention of a book called "Doce Pares of Francia", a book which many of the "old-timers" are said to be familiar

with, but a book difficult to locate due to its having been burned earlier in the 1900's. This book is said to be one source that establishes

Doce Pares back to the early 1700's or late 1600's as a sword and daggar art. There are individuals in more than one area of the Philippines

said to know of the one time existence of this book and who are familiar with it, but it has been difficult finding anyone who has an

existing copy. This is only one of many sources coming up that establish the early existence of long blade/short blade arts not of Spanish

origin, and of a rich martial arts tradition in the Philippines prior to the Spanish. (There is, has never been, any mention of superiority,

inferiority, purity, etc., and it isn't an issue of relevance).

 If I understand correctly, the twelve masters (doce pares) is based on Twelve Masters from different parts of the world who came

together in Laguna and who collaborated and competed with each other using swords, and of the art developed. The book ties the name

"Doce Pares" itself to the later introduction of the Moro-moro, and with the twelve masters from Laguna then being referred back to as

the "Doce Pares" (the twelve masters), and those in the play called the Doce Pares Players, in honor of the "Doce Pares". (I have tried to

be as true to the original letter as possible, but am sometimes unsure I'm understanding accurately. I will have

to take blame for any errors I might have made in my retelling.) Here are some important and interesting things I should share concerning

use of certain long blade/short blade combinations within certain tribes within the Philippines. (Yes, some of the tribes have used

weapons in their arts.) 1)The Igorot are known to have used the Sibat at Tabak, with the daga available to replace whichever weapon was

lost. 2)The Aetas of Infanta Quezon used a small knife made from animal or fish bones for ceremonial purposes, and also they used this

knife in combination with the Tabak or Tunkod. 3)The Hanuno Tribes of Mangyan in Mindoro used Bamboo pole and small knife in their

hands for hunting and for war. Some thoughts I found most insigtful within this letter were those to the effect that history is not always

as accurate as people think, and that what should be hoped for is an open atmosphere where people might discuss

things openly, for as such the truth might reveal itself. Something I want to state is that *NO* correspondence I've received on the

subject has ever talked about what system is oldest, what system is best, if there is any connection between age of a system and its

effectiveness, or any other such thing, nor is it any part of what I've spoken of, and I'm having a hard time understanding why some E-D

members are trying to drag such issues into the E-D discussion. Such issues aren't anything I've discussed, care to discuss, have

opinions on, or even have interest in. Later today I will try to get back to the Origins discussion. I hope some found interest in some of

the above.

Lonnie

From: Nate Defensor <guronate@wwa.com>

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:19:37 -0600 (CST)

Subject: eskrima: knives, blood grooves

S. Lawrence wrote:

>>military knives have a channal an the sides of the blade to prevent suction from occuring...ease of removal. They are referred to as

'blood grooves' Although not an authority on Filipino weapontry, I have not seen them on any of the swords.>>

Just to add my 2 cents, the Muslim Kampilan has a tip almost V-shaped. This tip was designed so to thrust only about 4-8 inches into the

human body and one can draw it out fast enough to carry on with the fight. Notice also the Celebes Kris and even the Javanese Kris is

mainly designed for thrusting and yet both are thin in width that one can pull it out easily to carry out multiple thrusts. On the other hand,

the "Moro Kris", or to be politically correct, the Muslim Kris is more of a hacking weapon that would inflict instant pain due to its

shredding effect. The lacerations will cause instant pain to any bone it makes contact. In reference to the blood grooves, the more

modern balisong makers, especially here in the mainland have differing blade shapes. And some can even customize blade shapes and

sizes. Another thing to consider is the type of movement one is using. Short crisp stab moves(angle 5, 6 & 7 in Serrada) with the dagger

or blade can be beneficial and most likely you won't get stuck. Also, the more proficient one is at moving with the weapon has more

importance than actual shape and size of a weapon. In Pekiti-Tirsia, we make a distinction on which moves are preferable for short

daggers or dirks. Example is Knife Tapping is for daggers(balisong or ice-pick) and Break-In/Break-Out is for blades(barong,

pinuti, binangon or machete).

Thanks,

Nate Def ensor

From: Nate Defensor <guronate@wwa.com>

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:19:59 -0600 (CST)

Subject: eskrima: it's all about the Benjamins baby!

Dear E-Digest,

 Terry Tippie wrote:

>> In that respect, perhaps these

>>statements should not be viewed in a historical or martial arts context.

>>Perhaps they are better viewed as marketing mumbo jumbo.

Nicely said. As a free enterprise, we need to rethink and recondition minds. Allow those to use such claims to attract the uninitiated. We

Need more people on our side. Name any city USA, most Karate or Tae Kwon Doschools draw more students than FMA. Poor marketing?

FMA alone is a hard sell. The public's reaction to stickfighting has been negative. Marketing FMA in general, one needs to be a little

creative. Exhibit A, the public's or need I say the Ladies' reaction on Fox TV's recent program on "The Dogbrother's". Of course FOX is

largely at fault with there mediocre presentation. It seems that everyone from FOX to Wesley Snipes to Steven Segal nonchalantly forgets

to give any credit to FMA. Grandmaster Floro Villabrille once showed me his "Hollywood" stuntman's Pass. He did stunts for the TV

show "Combat". Yet no mention of FMA even back in those days. I am hoping all this work that Jeff Ward, Ron Balicki and Jeff Imada

will someday payoff and the movie/TV industry will start recognizing that FMA is "all good" in terms of action and give it the credit it

deserves. Everyone is quick to criticize belts, board breaking, unbendable arm, 1st degree leaving Korea & 8th degree off the boat, and all

the other marketing ploys other Arts have tried. But it draws the crowd and have worked well in the past. We have grown as a Martial

Arts community and could do better overall in terms of quality of instruction and marketing the Arts. But we still need, sometimes, that

sensationalism to draw the crowd. To attract followers to FMA. Statements like "my art is over 2000 years old", I think given that

marketing FMA has been poorly done, should be considered OK as a marketing ploy. Not too long ago, in Asia, sensationalism is OK. It

draws the crowd to the movies. Overdramatization is entertaining. In US and Europe, the film critics prefer realism. The purist would love

to see full contact. Full contact kickboxing, full contact stickfighting, Muay Thai, UFC, etc... How close is it to reality? Is the question

most purists will pose. The problem with this approach, wanting to see it on film or on the ring people will pay in hoards. But doing it is

another story. You try selling stickfighting to a group of Chicago Board of Trade yuppies. 10-1 odds they would prefer to watch

"Dogbrother's Stickfighting" or "UFC" submission fights and would rather buy a gun and take aerobics before even contemplating on

joining an FMA class or training for a UFC fight. Since we are in the minority, then I say "YES!" to an aggressive-creative marketing

scheme. If one is really serious with accuracy and the need to document lineages for every Martial Arts in Southeast Asia, then put your

money where your mouth is and do what Donn Draeger did years ago but make sure tobring a film crew with you.

Sincerely,

Nate Defensor

Subject: one that got away

To: craftydog@dogbrothers.com,Davedel49@aol.com,dhinton@pen.k12.va.us, gat@oz.net,goldmakh@UTSW.SWMED.EDU,kalki@sprintmail.com, mgibby@worldnet.att.net,mark_harrell@hotmail.com,ruow@yahoo.com

Cc: Sidney525@aol.com,ttippie@ascend.com,Tuazon@aol.com,msalazar03@sprynet.com

...Here is one that Ray Terry did not publish in E-D but thought you folks might be interested in since for a while the history, religion

thing was a hot topic.

Again, just my 2 cents into the mix.

Nate

********************************************************************

Subject: It's rainbow coalition time!

To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

>>The Chinese are often

>>> hated in the Philippines because they buy options on rice...

This is definitely a major obstacle; growing up part Chinese and part Portuguese and the rest "Filipino". A can of worms had just opened

up. A huge part of this is Economic Prejudice. Successful at being the merchants of Asia, (exhibit A: recent troubles in Indonesia)the

Chinese are sometimes viewed as the Upper Class or the Middle-Upper class. Well, part of the blame can be attributed to the Spanish

influence and its remains. Spanish ways reshaped Philippine society and thus created the Illustrado class, the Hacienderos, the Mestizo,

the exploitive conditions that still continue to plague this third world country. We got Chinatowns in Chicago, but we do not experience

the same kind of hatred directed towards the Chinese in Djakarta, Indonesia or in Bacolod City. The same parallel can be seen to

the Jews in Skokie, who are left alone and looked up to as successful Immigrants/Citizens, versus the Jews in Germany during Hitler's

reign of terror. Of course, personal experience dictates both sides have varying degrees of arrogance and hypocrisy. "Full-bloodied"

Filipinoes viewed me as part-Chinese and "Full-bloodied" Chinese treat me as an outsider in their circles. Chinese boyhood pals would

not invite me to their Gung-Fu sessions because I did not speak their language. Then there is Regionalistic Prejudice. The Ilongo's in

Bacolod would pick on a Tagalog speaking "Manila Boy" and among Tagalog the speaking crowd, the minute you show an accent, one

of the tendencies is to assume that you are from the "Province" or from "Visayas", which makes you "outside" of the mainstream

Tagalog/Manila crowd. Here in the States, dapper/in-with-crowd "off the boat" Flips can act arrogant towards US Pinoys. Again, this

separatist/elitist attitude was started by the Spanish occupation. Spanish culture that got transported to the Philippines has poisoned

several generations. Colonial mentality pervades. It was the Spaniards really that started this attitude that everything "native" is no-good,

and everything from Europe is Class-A. Just mention Cotillion or any Spanish dish or a Fiesta commemorating some Christian Saint

among Filipinos and one gets eyebrows raised and more respect. Mention Maria Clara or even FMA to some Filipinos, and you get

almost no respect. You date a "Filipina Mestiza" and you get alot of clout among Filipinos. Smoke some US cigarettes, "blue seal", and

you get admired. Smoke the local cigarettes and date someone "Morena or plain Filipina" and your just average. This is

the salt left by the foreign invaders. Everything local is underappreciated and all goods imported is viewed as Top-Notch, Class A.

This is Philippine Society as a result of Colonization. Check out Franz Fanon how he talked about Algerian Blacks and the French

Colonization.

Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny posted earlier about the former masters being no better than the existing/foreign masters. That analogy is true

to some degree. Prior to Spain, the Barangays lived by the "Code of Kalantiaw" which is "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" type of

institution. Then the Hacienda life did not looked to bad. Followed by US missionaries who brought chocolate, Education, railroads, and

an better infrastructure. Still, no FREEDOM, no self-governance, and reliance on a different power. Throw in WWII and the Japanese

beheadings that went on, you have alot of bleeding egos/defeatist attitudes/devastation and generations of recovery

left. Chinese hatred is one. Regionalism is another. Linguistic prejudice is also another. Colonial mentality (based on Three Major foreign

invasions) is another poison to an entire nation and several generations that even a Dr. Kevorkian cannot administer with this nth degree

of harmful proportions. Just go down Chicago Avenue and Sacramento and see for yourselves the combined results of

exploitation/slavery/economic prejudice/racial discrimination/real estate red-lining and hypocrisy. Ask any of these crackheads and dope

peddlers about opportunity and the great "invisible hand" and about the benefits of "European Influence". You might get a rude

awakening. But to the Chinese credit, they for centuries had always been good merchants and contributed well to any society. The same

can be said about the successes of the Jews in modern society. Throw in the poison, hatred will snowball.

Thanks and Peace,

Nate Defensor

http://www.wwa.com/~guronate

email:guronate@wwa.com

Subject: Sources/Gratitude

To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

 Ron Harris wrote:

>>Can you tell me more about these recorded conflicts in the colonial period? What is your source material? I wonder whether there was

much loss of life from them. Maybe they were just "bump-d...>>

Swish of the Kris by Vic Hurley

Philippine Society and Revolution by Amado Guerero

Old Newspaper clippings from the Library, the Samar Rebellion, Diego & Gabriela Silang, Gen. Aguinaldo's campaign, the Cry of

Balintawak, the Negros Revolt, Mindanao and Sulu revolts, Francisco Daguhoy revolt, the Leyte Rebellion, Andres Bonifacio, the 1896

Revolution, etc... Need I go on? Someone also mentioned an issue ago, Renato Constantino's and Teodoro Agoncillo's books, also good

sources written from a non-conqueror's point of view. These weren't feeble attempts to mug a few "Spaniards" or challenge some to a

stickfight or see who can hold their liquor the most. They were bloodbaths. Both sides with heavy casualties. In some cases men,

women and children fought.

>>What was it that Christianity offered to unite the Filipinos, besides guilt? >>

Someone said: "Religion is the opiate of the masses...". Spaniards brought with them also: horses, plants, paella, gazpacho, Machismo,

"the hacienda" system, diseases, established the first University in Asia in 1600's (Univ. of Santo Tomas), and good fencing. Unity?

Questionable. To this day, it is very hard to eradicate class alienation, regionalism, and other attitudes as a result of many long years of

Colonization. End result, 90% are poor and 10% are rich. A phletora of attitudes: Chinese hatred, anti-bourgeois attitudes, political

indifferences, defeatist attitudes, etc... Not too many Filipinos factions and organizations will agree with each other. You see right in front

of you even in FMA. Filipino Manongs would openly teach and hardly hold back the techniques. The art was before taught in secrecy,

hidden in dances and plays called MORO-MORO, alphabet was embroidered in the barong tagalog outfits. This was a result of

"Artistic Suppression". On the contrary, most of Kung-Fu was taught to the higher classes of Chinese society. The Japanese are proud

of their Samurai inheritance, a warrior class that was applauded and nurtured. FMA there is a relaxed approach or a subtle approach. To

the Pinoy mainstream, it has lost its glossy-effect, war is over. My experience: F. Villabrille, R.Tobosa, J. del Mar, A. Cabales, L. Gaje, M.

Inay, J. Tacosa, H. Ramos, B. Pedoy, T. Subing-Subing, R. Bustillo, E. Sulite, M. Vasquez, D. Canete, C. Canete--all nice guys. All easy to

talk to and have shared their arts with me in a NON-Militaristic, Non-dictatorial fashion. No 2-hr horse stances, no KATAs till you drop,

etc... Though the training methods were just as hard & complicated as any Chinese-Japanese-Korean-Thai-Okinawan systems.

This ought to give someone a hint that Filipinos in general; easy to get along with and can literally "go with the flow". This melancholy

attitude I do not only see in FMA alone but it spreads throughout "Pinoy" culture. Traditional songs have this melancholy melody. One

theory is that this is a spillover result from years and generations of oppression. This is just a theory, not a knock on "Pinoys" but just an

observation. I am not implying all FMA GM's/Masters are all alike in this approach. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for all the kind words from Marc Denny, Tuhon Bill McGrath, Mik, Mike Salazar and others who sent private email. Oh, and

Tuhon Bill McGrath, I am working on it. Either I will see you or possibly sponsor one for you in Chicago.

Peace & Smile & Joy & Laughter,

Nate

Subject: Filipino/Philippines formulated later

To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

>>>The Spanish were flat-out superior to the Filipinos in their

> military technology. That doesn't make them morally correct.

> >>Ron

Just another opinion. I agree with the above statement but there is a slight omission of other facts which needed to be taken into

consideration. Philippines, the country, was not formulated until after the Spanish implemented the "divide and conquer rule". Prior to the

designation of Philippines or Las Islas Filipinas named after King Phillip of Spain, these islands were Maharlikas or a Confederation of

several Barangays or several Datus. That is why the Divide and Conquer as a strategy worked well in the Conquistadores

favor. Ilocanos pitted against Batanguenos, Batanguenos pitted against Ilongos, Ilongos pitted against Moros, etc... Don't forget, back in

those days, Piracy was a profession in most Barangays. Lest we forget, the guesstimate was that 2/3 of John Laffitt's men in the Battle of

New Orleans were "Filipino" pirates and "paid seamen" and "hired fighters". I think as a Colonial Strategy, the Spanish knew how to play

the game. But we can easily attribute the whole conquest to the various fighting skills that the early "Maharlikas" provided to the

Spanish empire. They had ready access to "mercenaries" who knew the seas and who knew the territory and best of all knew how to fight.

Filipinos, defeated their own selves. Christianity really won. Not Filipino Warrior vs Conquistador. It is silly to compare Conquistador

technology or style of fighting versus Ilocano style of bolo warfare or Moro style or Lapu Lapu's men vs Magellan's men. I'm sure it

was very hard to fight 49+ armored conquistadors armed with muskets, cannons, and cut/slash rapier-like swords and daggers. If we want

to compare styles, that is another story in itself. If one looks at the Medieval or even the Spanish armor, there are definite openings on the

back of the knees, the armpits, the throat area and the back. One could argue that a solid fighting style in the hands of a good warrior can

penetrate right thru the Spanish armor and his defenses. Now we can talk skill level. How good were the Spanish conquistadors with their

rapier-like cut and slash weaponry. Probably very good. How good were Lapu Lapu's men or how good were the Moros or how good

were General Aguinaldo's men. Probably also very good. This is kind of a moot argument. The fact remains, Christianity won, the Spanish

definitely influence an entire culture, the Filipinos were their own enemy, and in the end the mighty Spanish empire crumbled & lost the

fight. I think though that the tenacity of these early Filipino warriors showed in the fact that there were about 399+ recorded

battles, skirmishes, & rebellions throughout the Spanish occupation. Not to mention the unrecorded ones. Spanish rule was 377 years.

That is more than one battle per year, recorded! How many other nations states stood up to the Mighty Spanish Empire as many times as

the early "Filipinos", the early "Maharlikas"? The Aztecs and Incas feared "Quezalcoatl" or would rever Hernan Cortez as a "White God".

I think it is quite evident that they did not fear the Spanish and one can further speculate that their "highly developed" fighting arts &

spirit and Startegies can be attribute to the high number of battles and skirmishes. Otherwise, why rebel if you have no confidence in

your skills and chances of winning. Revisionist history suggested that the Spanish/American war at Manila Bay made the Spanish

surrender. Purely staged "LIE" or "BS"! The War was already won by the Revolutionaries. Check out any Leftist litereature (ie..Amado

Guerero, Renato Constantino, etc...), it will tell you many more things about that big "LIE" called the Spanish/American War. Sure the

Spanish were good at fencing, but so were the Ilocanos, the Moros, the Tausugs, the Ilongos, the Batanguenos, the Mangyans, the

Igorots, and many more. But they divided and conquered, they pitted one barangay versus another barangay, they had the help of the

cannons, muskets, and horses. And they had religion as a weapon to pacify/sanctify/circumcised/enslave/tax/ and strike fear to the

masses.

 Thanks and Peace,

Nate Defensor

Subject: Explaining in text: Knifetapping & Break-In/Break-Out

To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

Jon K. Curtis wrote:

>>>Nate Defensor wrote:

>>Example is Knife Tapping is for daggers(balisong or ice-pick) and

>>Break-In/Break-Out is for blades(barong,

>>pinuti, binangon or machete).

>Nate....would you or anyone else please explain these methods, and why

>each

>is used when working with weapons of different sizes.

>Thanks!

>~Kev

>curtisjk@harborcom.net

>http://members.harborcom.net/~curtisjk/index.html

Since no one else responded in the last 3 or 4 issues of E-D, I will try to explain in text what these drills are. I apologize for the wait, but I

was hoping someone like Tuhon Bill McGrath would respond to your inquiry. An *.avi file would probably clarify what I am about to

explain but due to my limited time/resources, still unable to produce such files yet at this time. This could also qualify as an article but I

will narrow the scope. Pekiti-Tirsia's knife tapping: other FMA styles have similar drills like this, Guro Dan Inosanto once showed me

Johnny LaCoste's and Villabrille Kali versions of this drill which looked similar but had some minor differences. Preferred weapon are

daggers or dirks or just about anything below 15 inches. Numbering system: 1=stab to the belly saksak grip, 2=stab to opponent's right

throat or armpit or solar plexus dagger palm facing up in a saksak grip, 3=stab to the heart or left throat or left armpit palm facing down

saksak grip. Two roles, A is a feeder or attacker and B is defender. Several scenarios: saksak(hammer grip) vs empty-hand, saksak vs

saksak, saksak vs pakal(icepick grip), double daggers saksak v empty-hand, double daggers saksak/pakal vs empty-hand, doble pakal vs

kamot(empty-hand), etc... Progression: single knife tapping, double knife tapping, attach and disattach tapping, third hand principle, and

disarmas/recontras or disarms and counters. One scenario: saksak(right hand) v kamot, single knife tapping A feeds B #1 thrust, B

sidesteps left (PT footwork)executes a downward motion backhand/forearm parry (palusot) towards A's outside part of the attacking right

arm. A immediately follows the energy generated by a palusot move into a #2 thrust. B maintaining left sidestep does a left forearm (ala

Tan Sao)check to the inside of #2 thrust and brings A's whole arm down clockwise redirecting attack to A's right side as B checks A's

left arm pushing it to his left with his left arm simultaneously drawing blade back towards hip and repositions blade shoulder for a #3

thrust. A does a #3 thrust while B meets thrust with his right forearm check (ala tan sao)palm facing him making contact with back of

forearm while sidestepping to the right and carries A's arm down(palusot) counterclockwise. As soon as A feels the palusot and blade

reaches his triangle apex or centerline, he checks B's arm with his left arm in a backhand motion and draws blade back to a #1 position to

start the drill over again from this reference point. From this position, A can even thrust with any of the three angles. This is one scenario

in plain vanilla with the absence of disarms, strikes, fakes, double checking, repeating angles, takedowns, etc...Essentially designed to

allow A to keep attacking with a dagger in a stabbing and checking mode. If B messes up on the palusot moves, A can proceed to do a

belly slicing move at random. Note also that the feeder's automatic checks which could be inserted inbetween each attack trains one to

retrieve the blade if it does gets stuck onto bone or clothing in a real fight scenario. This is where I contend that training drills or

experience or expert usage of blade movement is of higher importance than blade shape or even design.

Break-In/Break-Out: a live blade or single stick drill. A and B does a Hi forehand, low backhand, and high backhand (Entrada in Inosanto's

terms) and a left hand check to each other. Again, there are several scenarios: break-in, break-out, both break-in, and both break-out.

Break-In: above 3-beat drill gets repeated 3 or more times, then B would proceed to do a payong move (ala Serrada cross block or Wing

block as referred to in some Kali styles)on the inside of the 3rd beat, the high backhand strike. Pushing A's weapon to his right side B

delivers a backhand high punyo (butt of weapon) to the face while A does a palm check on B's wrist/forearm with his left and pushes B's

weapon down while delivering an angle 1 punyo strike to B's face. B reacts by parrying with left palm to the outside part of A's weaponed

arm while almost simultaneously delivers a rising salute move with his weapon making contact with A's weapon redirecting A's whole

arm/weapon to A's left. B then rechecks A's wrist/forearm with his left while pulling his weapon toward's his left neck in a backhand

posture right elbow hovering on top of left checking hand. B releases the check now both A & B delivers a high downward backhand

strike (ala angle 2 in most systems)in a 45 degree manner to the head while simultaneously checking opponent's weaponed arm on the

inside wrist pushing weapon arm upward and away. Both weapons swing down in a forehand hit toward's each other's left outer knee

while drawing back their left knees respectively. Both weapons make contact down low blade to blade and both come out with a left palm

check backhand motion and the drill starts over again. Combative? Yes! It trains one to flow from Long range to short range. It

allows no margin for error or else with live blades, deadly results. Precision is the key. One feels the checks, the reverberation upon

blades making contact, and the importance of monitoring the next move the opponent makes. Semi-choregraph but you won't know which

scenario your opponent will do, thereby has some degree of random acts involved. The blades I named above are ideal for this drill. They

are good for hacking and slicing and cutting advantageous for quick/short/crisp movements emphasized in break-in/break-out. Both drills

in terms of complexity, combative applications, and function: would rate real high in FMA list of drills. It is probably Pekiti-Tirsia's

equivalent to Serrada's Lock N' Block or Wing Chun's Chi Sao drill in terms of preparing & honing one's techniques close to real time.

Both can improve one's empty hand reflexes, sensitivity & coordination. For further instruction on above drills, contact a Pekiti-Tirsia

instructor or purchase my volume I and volume II tapes on "Defensor Method of Filipno-Indonesian Martial Arts" at

www.dls.net/~vama/eskrima. Or one may take a seminar or book a seminar from anyone with Pekiti-Tirsia Instructor level background,

including myself. Of course, your best bet is to go see Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje Jr. yourself if you can swing it. He is currently

residing in Negros Occidental, Philippines. For those in the East Coast contact Tuhon Bill McGrath (also has tapes) or Tom Bisio. Dallas -

Greg Goldmakher, Houston or San Antonio - Erwin Ballarta, Virginia - Dale Hinton, St. Louis - Tim Toeniskoetter, Patty Burkhalter, or Stan

Brooks, New Orleans - Ron Harris. Sorry if I omitted anyone, email me directly and I could extend the list of Pekiti-Tirsia or DM instructors

in contact with me.

Thanks & Peace,

Nate Defensor

"...if you can get away from the knives, you can get away from the empty

hands..." - Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje Jr., circa 1979-1980 at Manuel

Taningco's school at Dayton, Ohio.

Nate Defensor

Defensor Method

email:guronate@wwa.com

Subject: Boxing Evolved from Bare-Knuckle Fights Lasting Many Rounds

To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com

>>Gerrard wrote:

>>an article in a martial arts magazine that I had read a while back

>>comparing the similarities between Kali, Eskrima and it's influence on

>>boxers in the Philippines. It claimed that Gabriel "Flash" Elorde's

>>boxing style was heavily influenced by an Eskrimador relative in his

>>family who taught him the basics of what can now be called the "shuffle"

>>popularized by Muhammed Ali.

>>Makes for some interesting reading,indeed.

Well, here is my 2 cents into the pot: There is a common theory among FMA high level practitioners that Filipino "style" boxing heavily influenced the progress of Western Boxing as we know today. If one subscribe's to the "Panantukan" influence, they would

contend that in the early 1900's all the way up to the 30's and 40's(the golden age of "Filipino" boxers), Filipino boxers dominated their

divisions and heavily influenced other US fighters. Boxing among the US immigrants was a way out of poverty back in the 1920's/30's.

Lots of Filipino poor immigrants back then. From the 50's on, professional Filipino immigrants were the only ones mostly allowed into US,

thus the demise of boxing as sport of choice among US Filipinos. As a matter of fact, Guro Dan Inosanto, the late Ted LucayLucay and

the elder LucayLucay, subscribes to this same theory. (Fact: the elder Master LucayLucay taught Panantukan and was a boxer himself

and the son, Guro Ted LucayLucay published a book on this very subject). Filipino "panantukan" is a knife-based martial art and

martial sport. After 1896, when Americans brought out or imported the boxing gloves to the Philippines, the natives already knew their

"panantukan" and welcomed the gloves with open arms. Guro Dan points to the photos and old films of American bare knuckle boxers

who fought straight-up with very little footwork and less bobbing/weaving/ducking & rolling. These old fights would last several dozen

rounds sometimes. The early sport did not possess good body mechanics that fighters today have to land knockout blows. The sport

evolved as all sports do and the fighters got better as we see it today. Filipino boxers were known to have already possess the footwork

and proper body mechanics due to their "panantukan" skills, knife fighting and stick fighting skills. Thus contributing to the evolution

of the sport of boxing. There are numerous knife drills and stickfighting drills that develop footwork, proper body mechanics and evasive

defenses that could develop attributes needed to become good at boxing. The difference is the native art of "panantukan" included

elbows, gloves off, and just about everything is allowed as in real combat. What are these boxing moves? Exhibit A & B. Figure 8

striking, single stick, is equivalent to an uppercut. Serrada angle 11(Inayan) or angle 9 (Cabales), is like a jab/cross combination. Swim

blocks taught in Cadena de Mano and in Jimmy Tacosa's system looks like parry or catch or slap moves. Also in Cadena de

Mano, as taught by Mike Inay, there are moves similar to friction blocks in Western Boxing used for attacks and defense. Some even say

prior to the Filipino "influence", mitts training was absent in Western boxing. Panantukan uses the "bakya" or wooden sandals, or rolled

up newspapers, or made up mitts or "chinelas" (rubber slippers) as a training tool akin to the way mitts are used today. One can go on

and on with the similarities. It is essentially the same art. Western boxing is in many respects the same as parts of "panantukan" or

"Filipino Empty Hands" I grew up in Negros and participated in "panantukan" or "boksing" sports as a kid. The gloves was only for

safety and early training. The real deal is with gloves off, bare knuckle boxing coined as "boksing" or "panantukan" or "panatukan" or

"suntokan". Not quite real combat, not quite gangbanging but all out fisticuffs and in the end both combatants shake hands no matter

how much blood is spilled. If a kid grew up in Bacolod City back in the 50's/60's/70's, they get exposed to this macho sport.

Flash Elorde was as big back then as Michael Jordan is now in popularity in the island of Negros. It is common knowledge that Flash

Elorde trained in Arnis/Escrima and that Muhammad Ali befriended Elorde and adapted/borrowed his style of fighting & footwork.

Whether or not one subscribes to this theory("panantukan" or Filipino Boxers contributed to Western Boxing's evolution), one cannot

deny the fact that Filipino Empty Hand training is very effective & develops boxing-like attributes. This should've been an article, I

apologize for being too wordy. But one cannot deny that you drop the knife or the sticks & empty hand strikes no matter what style, will

look very similar to each other whether they come from Western Boxing or Kenpo or Kung Fu or Karate or Arnis or any art. I also have to

admit that there are Arnis/Escrima/Kali styles out there I have seen that do not practice empty hands or do not possess boxing-like

attributes. And many more Arnis instructors who do not teach empty hands and also some that do not possess boxing skills. I have

also personally met Wing Chun & Kung Fu practitioners who think that Kali/Escrima/Arnis empty hands are "weak". There are also

students both beginners & advance that see no correlation with weapons training to empty hands or see any benefit in weapons training

or fail to see weapons training as self-defense and/or an art applicable to modern day citizens. These are narrow-minded views and I am in

no mood for challenging each of them either in combat or in writing. All we can do as FMA practitioners is do the best we can at our very

own arts and convey the most honest, thorough, down to earth message we can possibly pass on.

Peace,

Nate Defensor